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And the oestrogen and testosterone as low, as progesterone suppresses these. Although you say it's transdermal, are you taking the drops? As this would account for the low progesterone, high testosterone, normal oestrogen. Oestrogen is a mitogen, stimulating cells to divide and multiply, including fat cells.
It also causes water retention and insulin resistance. Unless progesterone is the dominant hormone, you are going to continue gaining weight and water. Progesterone is thermogenic, so increases metabolism slightly, it's also an excellent diuretic. Apart from the fact it suppresses excess oestrogen.
So it's essential for it to become dominant for this to occur. The ratio of progesterone to oestrogen should be no less than To find this divide your progesterone result by the oestrogen result. I would never recommend progesterone during the first half of the cycle either, the idea is to follow the cycle.
Unless symptoms are very severe when I recommend using it daily. Otherwise it should be used from ovulation for the last 14 days of the cycle. This varies dependant on the length of the cycle, but in every women it's always days before we bleed. For more info on this please see our page on How to use progesterone cream. As you mention peri-menopause you might like to see our page on Peri-menopause. Aug 08, Too litte progesterone, too much estrogen? I have been on natural progesterone cream for about two months at 20mg per day, also estrogen cream 1 mg a day.
I have gained 10 lbs and cellulite which I never had before, I won't even wear shorts, I look horrible. It sounds the estrogen cream may only be making the problem worse. Should I quit it? No levels were done before putting me on the creams I am 54 and was having terrible daytime, nighttime sweats, poor sleep and extreme mood lability. I am feeling great in those regards but wonder if I should quit it all, I cannot continue with this weight gain. Seem to be retaining water too.
Thanks for any help. Now - severe adrenal insufficiency, so on lots of adrenal supplements; supposedly hypothyroid, so on Armour; 5 mg DHEA daily. This is getting expensive and who knows what's doing what at this point. Hard to discern any benefits. Thank you very much for your detailed and informed responses. Robin I can find almost nothing in the medical literature on low testosterone in pre-menopausal women! The only lit is on menopausal women, addressing low libido.
I don't care about libido. I just want the energy to break through cognitive hell. At age 43, pre-menopausal, I have "undetectable levels" of testosterone. Because I have a history of breast cancer, no doctor will take the risks of any supplementation, so I have started on DHEA myself. Any comments on undetectable testosterone in pre-menopausal women? I can't even find a menstrual cycle curve for women that includes testosterone, as if we don't even have it!
Thank you so much. Aug 11, Mirena IUD with progesterone by: Anonymous I have never been a thin girl Last January after being told that the fibroid tumors I had had made me infertile I got pregnant.
I terminated the pregnancy spare me the lectures I'm 40, single and unemployed and at the same time had an IUD implanted to prevent future pregnancies.
I have since gained 20lbs. I am not sedentary. I am not a gym goer at all but I have not lessened my activity in the least I have recently secured a job and have been doing more running around than I had the 6 months prior to this event and have made a conscious effort to eat less meat and increase my veggies. I'm no dietary angel The only difference is my Mirena IUD that contains progesterone. Given my history with uterine fibroid tumors I couldn't take an estrogen rich birth control method and without health insurance a tubaligation surgery was not a possibility.
Could my IUD be doing all this? I LOVE what it has done for my cycle, love not getting pregnant, love not having to have a hysterectomy and most of all LOVE not having to think about any of it. I read in another post that the side effect is an increase of estrogen produced. Do I need to be wary of future tumors? Not sure what to make of all this. Aug 11, Too litte progesterone, too much estrogen? Wray Hi Whozy Progesterone can cause weight gain initially, please see this web page on Oestrogen Dominance.
It explains why it occurs, but you should have been warned it could happen. Briefly it stimulates oestrogen, but as you are adding more with the cream you're using, it will only compound the problem. I don't believe any of us needs more oestrogen, whether it's synthetic, natural or our own endogenous oestrogen. Please see our web page on HRT for more info. The 20mg amount you are using will only exacerbate the situation. And progesterone should be used for a minimum of twice a day as levels drop after about 13 hrs.
As for why progesterone is made in such low strengths, and why such low doses are recommended, it depends on which authority one listens too. I was fortunate enough to meet Dr Dalton while she was alive, she advised me on several occasions about how to use progesterone and the amount too. It most certainly is not 'dose' related, but is entirely dependant on symptoms. Oestrogen is a mitogen, causing cells to divide and multiply, including fat cells.
As these are also a non-ovarian source of oestrogen a vicious cycle is set up. Oestrogen also causes water retention. Progesterone on the other hand inhibits mitosis, and is such an excellent diuretic it's now being given via IV transfusion to brain trauma victims to prevent the oedema that forms. So it is essential that progesterone becomes the dominant hormone before symptoms can resolve.
Wray Hi Robin It can be confusing! Of course I'll do the math for you. So mg will require 6. Please see this page on How to use progesterone cream.
She was the foremost authority before her death, having used it for her patients since She gave me her advice freely, as she knew I was trying to help other women. I'm so sorry to hear of your 10 years of hell, many nutrients could have been given to help you over it. The one that concerns me the most is vitamin D, a lack of this leads to cancer, to fatigue, to hypothyroidism. Please have a test done. The following gives an indication of levels found in the blood. The test should be done for hydroxyvitamin D, also called calcidiol.
For more information please see here. Plus a lack of vitamin D reduces the benefits of progesterone. The fatigue also leads me to believe your cells are not getting the nutrients they need.
Although you probably don't have Insulin Resistance, please read our page on it, as it explains what happens if no fuel is going where needed, ie into the cells. As the fatigue also started when your periods returned it's indicative of a lack of progesterone, myopathy too is helped by progesterone.
And it seems you also suffered from this, when you mention "to the point of disability". I'm surprised you have been given DHEA, it can cause cancer and cysts, please read these papers here, and here and here. You might like to read this story and this story too. Wray Hi Robin The jury is still out on whether in fact it's testosterone that increases libido, in fact it looks increasingly likely that it's progesterone.
Please see this paper. Although anecdotal, we have many men using progesterone to increase theirs, they find it more effective than testosterone. The following are the ranges of testosterone found in women.
I believe your cognitive fog is due not to low testosterone, but to too high an oestrogen level. Whether it's from our own endogenous oestrogen, or natural or synthetic supplements, high oestrogen increases cognitive decline and dementia. Please see our page on HRT.
Peri-menopause can start years before menopause, which on average occurs at Please see our page on Peri-menopause. With it comes dropping progesterone levels and normal oestrogen levels.
When the ratio is skewed too greatly, problems start occurring. You don't give your levels, but to find the ratio divide the progesterone result by the oestrogen result. I've found to be really well progesterone must be the dominant hormone. So the ratio should be well over Like you I have yet to find what the ratio of testosterone to the other hormones should be.
But as I believe oestrogen is the problem hormone, I prefer to concentrate on getting the level down, and the progesterone up. The more severe, the more progesterone is needed. If you should consider using it please see this page on Oestrogen Dominance first. It can occur and is disconcerting if it does. Finally I would avoid DHEA as it can cause cysts and cancer by increasing oestrogen and testosterone levels.
Please see these papers here, here and here. Wray Hi there Unfortunately the Mirena does not contain progesterone, but a synthetic progestin. These have many adverse side affects, please see our web page on Contraceptives. It won't increase oestrogen levels, but it can induce insulin resistance, this is turn causes weight gain amongst other things. For more info please see our web page on Insulin Resistance. There is a link on this page to another giving advice on food.
For an equally effective contraceptive, far safer too, please consider the copper T IUD, it leaks no progestin into the body. And please avoid a tubal ligation, even if you get health insurance! Fibroids are stimulated by oestrogen, for more info please see our page on Fibroids. As you have them, it's evident you have excess oestrogen, so you might want to try progesterone to suppress it.
For more info please see our page on How to use progesterone cream. But before you do please see the page on Oestrogen Dominance. This can occur, specially if there is excess oestrogen, and it's disconcerting if it does. Aug 17, Androgen Deficient by: Anonymous In October I came off my birth control because i thought it was giving me low grade fevers. Since then, I have had blood work and saliva tests done to see what my levels are.
The cream was making me very hung over the next day and now i am on mg progesterone pills a day. Testosterone is within normal range. DHEA is within low-normal expected age range. They suggested i use.
My thyroid levels are fine even though i have many symptoms that it is low. Please let me know your thoughts. Before I started using the cream, the progesterone was on the low side. Obviously not balanced since my estrogen is very normally high. Aug 20, Androgen Deficient by: All contraceptives stop ovarian function, so no oestrogen, testosterone or progesterone is made.
Once stopping them the ovaries can begin working again, but initially they only make oestrogen and testosterone. It can be weeks, if not months before ovulation occurs. Which explains why your ratio is out, in spite of supplementing with progesterone. Oral progesterone is the least affective delivery system, please see our page on Progesterone application methods. Most of the progesterone is destroyed by the gut and liver, which is why you are better able to tolerate it.
The progesterone from the cream is absorbed without destruction, so you were getting a higher level. This is the reason for the 'hung over' affect, for more info on this please see our page on Oestrogen Dominance.
I don't believe we need supplemental DHEA, please judge for yourself by reading the papers here, here and here. Low thyroid symptoms are very similar to low progesterone symptoms, in fact progesterone can help the thyroid, as it suppresses oestrogen which slows it down.
Aug 22, Which is better synthetic or bio Progesterone? I also take hydrocortisone for my adrenals which are flatlined. I just took a saliva test and am awaiting the results on my progesterone. Over the course of 5 years I finally got a doctor to do the right tests and see that I had a thyroid problem.
I always ran 5 miles a day and worked out with weights and ate so healthy it's ridiculous. I was a fanatic! I gained about 30 pounds and can't lose a pound no matter how I work out. If my progesterone is put back in check will this finally be the missing piece to help my body get back to where it was?
Aug 24, Androgen Deficient by: Michelle Thanks for responding Wray. This is so confusing UGH - may I ask some more questions?
You are right, after 5 months my dr. Although I know progestrin is not good for me, my hair stopped falling out, my libido went out the roof and I felt so good! Is there a natural dosage that equals the progestrin? Will the higher dosage of progesterone make me sleepy as well? Will the progesterone help the androgen deficiency? I can tell the mg dosage of progesterone is not enough because of the acne, libido, pms, excessive retaining water. I am assuming I am getting enough progesterone just to stimulate the estrogen.
Aug 26, Which is better synthetic or bio Progesterone? Wray Hi Dawn The missing piece could be a lack of vitamin D, was this checked? A lack of this leads to weight gain, it also leads to hypothyroidism and insulin resistance, plus many other things.
IR leads to weight gain too, which no amount of exercise or good food will reverse. For more info on this please see our page on Insulin Resistance. Supplemental progesterone does help the adrenals, as these have to produce progesterone before converting it to cortisol one of our stress hormones. Stress drops progesterone levels too, so does excessive exercise, as it depletes cholesterol from which progesterone is made. Progesterone is thermogenic, so speeds metabolism slightly, but it's not a weight loss solution.
But if your oestrogen is higher than it should be, this is another possible cause for the weight gain. Oestrogen and only oestrogen stimulates cells to divide and multiply, including fat cells. Fat cells are also a non-ovarian source of oestrogen, so a vicious cycle starts.
Again no amount of good food or exercise will help. For more info on delivery systems please see Progesterone application methods. Avoiding all carbs, legumes and dairy would be a good plan, please see this page of more info on Nutrition and Diet.
Please have a vitamin D test done, for more info please see the Vitamin D council website. Sep 12, Mirena IUD with progesterone by: Anonymous You were saying that merina has progestin which causes insulin resistance. Is there a way to reverse that and avoid weight loss or removal is the only way? Sep 13, 2 questions on progesterone and diet by: Anonymous I am experiencing the exact same weight gain problems as described previous.
I am 43 and have gained 15 pounds that are unexplainable in the last two years. I am a rigorous exerciser and healthy eater. And I do understand the role of progesterone on oestrogen. I have these questions: I was getting a period every two weeks. Her comment was that this was turning testosterone into estrogen and that I should take even more to counteract. The weight went on even quicker that month. Still a period after two weeks. She advised stop the progesterone while bleeding and start on day 7.
I am leery of this. I would think better to start at day 14? You also mentioned that it takes a while for the progesterone to dominate the oestrogen - how long do you mean days, weeks, months? As for diet to help with IR how do I interpret low carbs?
Does this mean only fats and meats or will it include grains, fruits, veggies? Sep 16, Any Help is Appreciated!
AF Wow, Im so happy to come across this. I am 24 and have had a Mirena IUD for 4 years, hypothyroid, and insulin resistiant. I have gained over 60 pounds in the last 2 years. Recently I have started testing for cushings and wondering if this has anything to do with anything.
If someone has a good idea where to start please do so. Sep 19, Mirena IUD with progesterone by: Wray Hi there Removal is the only way, as by leaving it in it will still be leaking a progestin into the body.
For more info please see our page on Contraceptives. A safe contraceptive is the copper T IUD, it leaks no drug into the body. Sep 19, 2 questions on progesterone and diet by: Progesterone can initially upset the cycle, and using it daily in that amount could continue to upset it.
You don't mention severe symptoms so I suggest you use it following your cycle. You don't say how long this is, but progesterone should be used from ovulation, for the next 14 days. As you are nearing or in the beginning stages of P-M, please see our page on Peri-menopause.
Weight gain can be a problem when first starting progesterone, for an explanation on this please see our page on Oestrogen Dominance. And it can take a while for progesterone to dominate, also dependant on symptoms.
It can take up to 6 months, but during those months symptoms gradually go or stop. Some resolving very early. For more info on IR please see our page on Insulin Resistance. There is a link to diet on this page, but I'll give it here too Low carbs are all animal proteins, all good fats and oils like coconut, olive, flax, butter, all green leafy veggies, including things like stalks, shoots, sprouts, flowers like cauli and broccoli. Limit fruit to the ones with low sugar, ie apples, berries and under ripe bananas and pears.
Sep 20, trying to conceive by: I am 37 now and trying to get pregnant. I have had two previous pregnancies which resulted in miscarriages. I know that I am oestrogen dominant due to the endo. However,within 3 days of usage I have felt slightly nauseous, weight gain around my waist and abdomen, white clumpy discharge sorry TMI. I know its the oestrogen dominance acting out.
My question is should I increase the progesterone dose? Sep 21, I don't understand by: What I don't understand is that if I am suffering from oestrogen dominance, then why does taking progesterone make the oestrogen dominance worse? Surely the prog I am taking now is more than I was taking before so the ratio between prog and oestrogen must be better than before so why weight gain now and not before?
Sep 28, Wray is wrong by: Anonymous You most certainly can be intolerant of progesterone. Look up "non-compliance" with combination hormone replacement therapy. If I could afford 6 weeks off for recovery, I would have my uterus removed tomorrow! I felt marvelous on estrogen, but needed to take progesterone to prevent hyperpasia of the uterus. I tried it in pill form yes,it was bio-identical Prometrium.
I tried it vaginally. We tweaked the doses lowered, or introduced it gradually. Then I tried other forms of progesterone or progestin. I can't tolerate it! I remember reading Dr. John Lee and trying the cream some years back.
That made me feel awful as well. We aren't the only ones reacting this way either. I don't care if progesterone is "natural" in a women. It's the hormone most to blame for pre-period bloating, irritability and fatigue. During pregnancy there is a lot more hormonal activity going on in addition to progesterone levels increasing. Also, it is happening IN your body, not modified from horse's urine or a plant. Sep 29, Progesterone makes me so sleepy!!! Anonymous In June, I was put on 20mg progestrone cream for estogen dominance saliva test - i was having breakthrough bleeding every two weeks and so sleepy - in July, my dosage was upped to 30 mg.
Sep 30, Wray is wrong by: You say I'm wrong, if so, then the many thousands of studies I have read and quote from must be wrong too. I never give advice or information unless there is a study to back it up. I do agree about non-compliance to HRT, it's dangers too, you might like to look at our page on this subject But HRT comprises synthetic oestrogen or progestins, not progesterone.
There is great confusion between the two in the medical profession and lay people alike. There would be no offspring on this planet, as no woman would be prepared to go through with pregnancy. Skin, hair, nails, mood etc are all greatly benefited by the progesterone we make during pregnancy. If as you say progesterone makes us all ill, I would love to know how the TBI researchers could be so wrong. So wrong, that they are now doing a people study on the benefits of progesterone for TBI!
They are also doing a study on MS and on stroke, as they believe it will help. Please see here and here. Progesterone drops sharply just before our period, the ratio between that and oestrogen becomes badly out of balance. By using supplemental progesterone it reverses the ratio making progesterone the dominant hormone. Space doesn't allow me to give you the papers on this.
I've found the amounts recommended are far too low to have any affect, beyond causing oestrogen dominance, please see Oestrogen Dominance. The amount needed should be between mg, entirely dependant on symptoms, the more severe, the more is needed.
Oral progesterone Prometirum is a waste of time, please see Progesterone application methods. Progesterone does not come in patches, progestins do, they cause serious side effects, please see Contraceptives. Oct 03, trying to conceive by: Wray Hi Zoe I'm not sure why you've been given clomid, as it stimulates ovulation, and yet you don't seem to have problems falling pregnant, only in keeping the foetus.
Please see the WebMD website for more info. Duphaston is not natural, so I'm pleased you've replaced it. So please increase the amount you are using. This should help the oestrogen dominance you are getting, more info on this here.
I wish I could tell you how long it will take, but can't. I've found it can take months before things settle down, although during that time many symptoms go. Please also read our page on Pregnancy. Oct 03, Any Help is Appreciated! Wray Hi AF All contraceptives come with adverse side effects, some we are not aware of, please see this page on Contraceptives.
They can cause IR too, please see our page on Insulin Resistance. And can slow the thyroid. I wouldn't be surprised to find the levonorgestrel caused your weight gain too, as this is also one of the side effects, please see here and here. It also causes a decrease in progesterone production, see here.
I can't find any evidence that levonorgestrel causes Cushing's, so that could be an underlying problem. The symptoms are very similar, although you don't give any beyond the weight gain. We do have a page on PCOS, please read through it, it might help.
If you should consider progesterone please read this page on How to use progesterone cream. But before you do please read this page on Oestrogen Dominance. Oct 03, I don't understand by: Wray Hi Eloise That does happen when you increase the amount. You don't say how much you were using, or how much you are using now, so I can't help much.
But evidently the amount you were using was not enough. Fro more info please see our page on Oestrogen Dominance. The ratio is probably better, but it's not until progesterone becomes the dominant hormone do things settle down. The more severe the more is needed. For more info please see the page we have on How to use progesterone cream.
Oct 12, Nobody knows anything.. Marta I spent the last 10 years trying to find a decent endocrinolist, I read many books on hormones, I'm a very educated person myself During perimenopause you might try some bioidentical hormones, but it's almost next to impossible to balance out your hormones.
Once you're postmenopausal under no circustances replace Estrogens, because they stimulate cell growths not even bioidentical estrogens are a good idea. I tried to use some bioidentical Progesterone cream just to have some hormones in my body. I just decided to stop that too because I'm getting larger and larger with no reason.
The one thing that did help me tremendously and let me sleep uninterrupted for 10 years is my fan. I lie down, take 1 Benadryl to sleep, turn on my fan even the sound is very relaxing I didn't have one single episode of nightsweats. I use fans during the day too.. Now I'm post-menopausal, taking nothing, and sleep like a baby. During perimenopause I suffered so much, I was suicidal.
I found there is tremendous confusion out there, nobody has any answers Oct 13, Progesterone makes me so sleepy! Anonymous In June, I was put on 20mg progestrone cream for estogen dominance saliva test - I was having breakthrough bleeding every two weeks and so sleepy - in July, my dosage was upped to 30 mg.
Oct 17, Nobody knows anything.. Wray Hi Marta It is a confusing situation, but having used progesterone and a high amount for 14 years, I can say it saved my sanity as I was suicidal too. I do agree about synthetic hormones, and about oestrogen too, even the phytoestrogens have an oestrogenic affect. The reason you got larger and larger on progesterone was because you were advised to use too little. Progesterone does initially stimulate oestrogen, hence the weight gain, please see our page on Oestrogen Dominance.
It must be used in a high enough amount to prevent this occurring. It's also important to make progesterone the dominant hormone. Incidentally it's excellent for ageing, please see here, here, here and here.
It is also protective against the many oestrogen mimics our planet is now flooded with, see the website Our Stolen Future. Oct 17, Progesterone makes me so sleepy!
If you have oestrogen dominance, it would only have made it worse, please see our page on Oestrogen Dominance. Oral progesterone is not the best delivery system either, as much of it gets destroyed in the gut, with the liver metabolising the rest. Please see our page on Progesterone application methods.
It must be used in a system which enters the circulation rapidly, ie injections, suppositories or a cream. If progesterone levels drop too low in ratio to oestrogen you would experience break through bleeding. Progesterone must become the dominant hormone to prevent this. Oct 18, Progesterone makes me so sleepy! Anonymous Thanks Wray, but should 20 mg of cream be making me sleepy?
I am now taking 10 mg and it helps but I am still gaining weight. I guess I am not getting enough? I'm afraid to up it more because of it making me sleepy. The key to weight control is balancing energy intake with energy expenditure, a relationship that is often referred to as the energy balance equation.
Energy input comes from the food and drink we consume and is usually measured in kilocalories kcal. Department of Agriculture assigns calorie levels based on an individual's sex, age and activity level. The intake quantities range from 3, kcal for active males between 19 and 20 years of age to 2, kcal for sedentary males 76 and up. The corresponding numbers for females are 2, kcal and 1, kcal, respectively. When energy intake is greater than energy expenditure the body will store excess energy as fat, regardless of whether those excess kcals came from fat, carbohydrate, protein or even alcohol.
Energy expenditure consists of three components: In the sedentary individual BMR typically accounts for 60 to 75 percent of energy expenditure, DIT is responsible for about 10 percent and physical activity between 10 and 25 percent. As you might expect, active individuals will have a greater proportion of energy expenditure accounted for by physical activity.
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